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Sheluyang Peng's avatar

I agree with you. Trans activism states that self-identification is all that one needs to be trans. What I think people struggle with here is nuance. One can be part of a group seen as marginalized, yet still do something that would be considered immoral. Even trans activists have failed to see this, as they reject the Club Q shooting suspect's claim of being non-binary. I wrote about it here:

https://societystandpoint.substack.com/p/the-court-system-is-not-non-binary

Both sides of this culture war would be helped by nuance.

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Valentin's avatar

I think you are making an error in positing a strict binary, "trans people are either trans or not". I would recommend Kathleen Stock on this topic, it really benefits from a rigorous philosophical approach. What does "really trans" mean here? If the only answer you'll allow as satisfying this is "trans is just an adjective like in 'tall women' or 'thin women'", skip the rest and simply note my agreement with your point.

Every sane person will admit that sex is real, and not dependent on self-declaration or identity. But I'm sympathetic to the argument that given enough medical intervention (think bottom surgery, hormones etc.), it is possible to functionally change sex. So even in terms of prisons, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to distinguish between a post-op trans woman and biological females.

The question is, what about trans women with a penis? Stock's point, with which I agree, is that saying they are simply "women" is a kind of useful societal fiction. If it doesn't hurt anyone, and greatly improves someones life, there is a moral imperative to treat them as they want to be treated; that doesn't mean you agree in principle that the presence of a penis or vagina is inherently irrelevant for the category "women". Which gives you a straightforward case for legal protection from discrimination etc. And of course, gender dysphoria is real and further bolsters that case, since it raises the harm of not adhering to their preferences.

However, in that view treating someone as their identified gender is still fundamentally a courtesy. A required courtesy in most cases, but a courtesy nonetheless. This doesn't mean denying that they are "really trans", which I would merely take to mean they really, truly, honestly identify as their chosen gender. But it does give you some leeway to abandon that fiction when the benefits no longer outweigh the harms, as for the "penised individual who raped a woman". Sure, that person will still feel better when treated as a woman, but other women (and especially the victim, who might have some understandably conflicted feelings about the perpetrator) might feel worse at the forced inclusion of a raping penis amongst them, if only linguistically included. It also simply makes activism against sexual assault easier and more forceful if you don't need to hedge your words at all times; the threat of rape for women (trans and cis alike) almost exclusively comes from "people with a penis", and replacing that construction with "men" makes for better and clearer campaigns. Insisting that a person with a penis who doesn't identify as a man is a woman seems to have a negative benefit/cost tradeoff in some edge cases, which I imagine is what sets off people like JKR in those cases, since it values the concerns of some people with a penis higher than those of some people with a vagina.

Can this view be described as believing trans women aren't really trans? It's not "trans women are women", but I would say it's "trans women are trans women". Which should in most cases be taken to just mean "women", but not as a dogma that supercedes all other considerations. And in my opinion that is a perfectly consistent view that simultaneously acknowledges that people can be "really trans", at least in my interpretation of that word.

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